From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!infeed1.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsm2.ibm.net!ibm.net!news1.ibm.net!166.72.74.152 Tue Aug 5 18:27:12 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18822 From: Masema@juno.com (Brent P. Newhall) Newsgroups: rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 15:57:20 GMT Message-ID: <33e74c9a.9322457@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <33dfda25.39810645@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <5rqe15$h6c$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> <870370435snz@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> <5rr7la$a08$1@newbabylon.rs.itd.umich.edu> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.72.74.152 Lines: 37 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!infeed1.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsm2.ibm.net!ibm.net!news1.ibm.net!166.72.74.152 On Fri, 1 Aug 1997 17:07:47 -0500, Joe Lee wrote: >On 31 Jul 1997, David Andrew Helder wrote: > >> The blind-man CRPG idea is fascinating. However, how would you >> interface with the game? By voice only? That might be too limiting. >> What if you had a standard CRPG interface, but with a black screen. It >> would be difficult to find objects. I guess you'd just click into the >> darkness to try to pick something up. You could also have a seeing-eye >> dog that would bark at nearby objects and help lead you. Or, you could >> have a cane that would make clicking noises when you hit something. > >I think it might be cool if all you had was some variety of gamepad, which >allowed you to navigate through menus via some form of audio cues, >although one would probably want to avoid "Press 1 to pick up the bag, >press 2 to enter the cave..." At least then you might not have to sit >next to a blank monitor. > >Or, how about this: The primary interface to the game is via a hand-held >"pointer" device that the user can carry around the room, allowing the >computer to locate the user in space. Using this information, the >computer can project the appropriate stereo sounds out of speakers around >the room. The user could then "feel around" for objects or people, using >buttons on the pointer to activate the objects. Look down at your mouse. There's your "hand-held 'pointer' device". :-) I really like this idea...the capacity to hunt around in the dark for stuff could be really fun...or extremely annoying if the designers decided to make the players hunt for important clues in out-of-the-way places, making it just like "hunt for the hot-spot" except with no way of telling where a hot-spot might be. Brent P. Newhall "Education never ceases." From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!iagnet.net!nntp.earthlink.net!hipbone Thu Aug 7 09:19:19 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18862 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!iagnet.net!nntp.earthlink.net!hipbone From: hipbone@earthlink.net (Charles Cameron) Newsgroups: rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 17:05:45 -0700 Organization: HipBone Games Lines: 48 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: pool052-max7.pasadena-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Hi, Brent, and Isaac too: Thanks for your post, Brent. You write: > as I see it this audio-only game is *removing* an important part > of my interaction with a game, namely, sight. How would this > improve my enjoyment of the game? > I guess I'm just not seeing it... I think that the operative parts of your post here are "as I see it" and "I guess I'm just not seeing it" -- ie that it's how we "look at" the thing, not some quality of the game itself, which makes the difference. A game without visuals would strike me just the same way it strikes you if it were presented "as a computer game" without further qualifications. But if it were presented as "a computer game for the blind", as Isaac Kuo suggested, and made use of the cursor on a dark screen as a sort of analog for a blind person's cane, with "pings" indicating proximity to objects, I'd likely think it was brilliant. It's all in the way I contextualize it, in other words. When TV came along, it really was as though it was "radio plus pictures" -- but that didn't somehow make the radio into "TV minus pictures", and we still listen to radio as radio and watch TV as TV. So an all-sound no-visuals computer game would be -- to my mind aka "as I see it" -- lacking an important component *unless it was adding an important constraint*. And in the case of Isaac's "detective game for the blind" idea, I'd "see it" as adding a constraint rather than depriving me of something I ought to have... I gather from your latest post, just in as I post this, Brent, that we're probably closer to seeing eye to eye on all this than we were before Isaac's "blind detective" post... And Isaac, if you're reading this -- I think it's a terrific idea, and wonder whether you couldn't get some funding from a charitable foundation to develop the idea... Best wishes, -- Charles Charles Cameron * hipbone games: http://idt.net/~davehuge/ mirror site: http://home.earthlink.net/~hipbone/ From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!peernews.ftech.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!info.uah.edu!maze.dpo.uab.edu!news.cis.uab.edu!news.lsu.edu!kuo Fri Aug 8 09:56:39 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18874 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!peernews.ftech.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!info.uah.edu!maze.dpo.uab.edu!news.cis.uab.edu!news.lsu.edu!kuo From: kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu (Isaac Kuo) Newsgroups: rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: 7 Aug 1997 20:26:11 GMT Organization: Department of Computer Science, LSU, Baton Rouge Lines: 36 Message-ID: <5sdb13$vt2$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: bit.csc.lsu.edu In article , Charles Cameron wrote: >And in the case of Isaac's "detective game for the blind" idea, I'd "see >it" as adding a constraint rather than depriving me of something I ought to >have... [...] >And Isaac, if you're reading this -- I think it's a terrific idea, and >wonder whether you couldn't get some funding from a charitable foundation >to develop the idea... Well, I think something could be experimentally put together without any funds at all. I'm a programmer, and could easily program something like this--but there are two major obstacles as I see it: 1. Design of the interface. In my mind, I imagine something controlled with keyboard input ala text adventures. At least that way the programming is easiest. However, fancier ideas are possible, and would have to be thought out more carefully (for instance, speech recognition based interfaces). 2. Writing the scenarios. I am no author. This is the most critical part to making this sort of game enjoyable. The author is more important than the programmer. OTOH, a really campy "adventure game" might have a limited appeal. I recently dug up an old Commodore 64 program my brother wrote called "The Joystick". It was a multi-choice text "adventure" where you could go around various rooms in our house searching for the joystick (undoubtably inspired by real events). In one room, there happens to be a joystick. Wow! -- _____ Isaac Kuo kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu http://www.csc.lsu.edu/~kuo __|_)o(_|__ /___________\ "Mari-san... Yokatta... \=\)-----(/=/ ...Yokatta go-buji de..." - Karigari Hiroshi From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!server4.netnews.ja.net!server2.netnews.ja.net!news-peer!btnet!infeed1.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsm2.ibm.net!ibm.net!news1.ibm.net!166.72.74.76 Mon Aug 11 09:13:06 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18893 From: Masema@juno.com (Brent P. Newhall) Newsgroups: rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 18:53:16 GMT Message-ID: <33eb6a0e.20757814@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> References: <5sdb13$vt2$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.72.74.76 Lines: 44 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!server4.netnews.ja.net!server2.netnews.ja.net!news-peer!btnet!infeed1.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsm2.ibm.net!ibm.net!news1.ibm.net!166.72.74.76 On 7 Aug 1997 20:26:11 GMT, kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu (Isaac Kuo) wrote: >In article , >Charles Cameron wrote: > >>And in the case of Isaac's "detective game for the blind" idea, I'd "see >>it" as adding a constraint rather than depriving me of something I ought to >>have... >[...] >>And Isaac, if you're reading this -- I think it's a terrific idea, and >>wonder whether you couldn't get some funding from a charitable foundation >>to develop the idea... I agree! I think the "blind detective" idea is great (I'm just still not crazy about this in other contexts). >Well, I think something could be experimentally put together without >any funds at all. I'm a programmer, and could easily program something >like this--but there are two major obstacles as I see it: > >1. Design of the interface. In my mind, I imagine something controlled > with keyboard input ala text adventures. At least that way the > programming is easiest. However, fancier ideas are possible, and > would have to be thought out more carefully (for instance, speech > recognition based interfaces). I recall one of the prior posts on this topic mentioning a mouse-based interface in which you move your mouse around a (black) screen, getting audio feedback based on where your mouse is. Mouse = cane (or hand), in this instance. For example, if you touched a cabinet you'd hear your cane knocking on hollow wood. You could also try to manipulate items you couldn't hear, such as manipulating a bookcase, which would cause you to pull out a book and realize, "Ah! This is a bookcase!" >2. Writing the scenarios. I am no author. This is the most critical > part to making this sort of game enjoyable. The author is more > important than the programmer. Indeed, this would be quite a game to write. Perhaps you could put together a small demo and show it to a few charitable organizations. Brent P. Newhall "Education never ceases." From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!europa.clark.net!169.207.30.81!newsfeeds.sol.net!newsspool.sol.net!munnari.OZ.AU!news.mel.connect.com.au!minotaur.labyrinth.net.au!flaky Thu Aug 14 13:45:29 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18962 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!europa.clark.net!169.207.30.81!newsfeeds.sol.net!newsspool.sol.net!munnari.OZ.AU!news.mel.connect.com.au!minotaur.labyrinth.net.au!flaky From: flaky@labyrinth.net.au (Chun Hock Lim) Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Followup-To: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Date: 13 Aug 1997 18:29:18 GMT Organization: Labyrinth Connections Pty Ltd. Lines: 18 Message-ID: <5ssudu$6r2$2@minotaur.labyrinth.net.au> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <33dfda25.39810645@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <5rqe15$h6c$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> <870370435snz@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> <5rt0ms$11ck$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: minotaur.labyrinth.net.au X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Isaac Kuo (kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu) wrote: : However, upon reflection, and audio only game _does_ have commercial : possibilities. Why? Because of a sizable untapped market for : computer games: sorry to piss in your teacup, but the idea of a sound only game has been announced by Kenji Eno from Warp Japan over a year ago. the title which is surprisingly headed for the console market is called "Real Sound" and will be released on the Sega Saturn later this year. imho it borrows heavily from Derek Jarman's last film "Blue" which was a 90 minute production featuring a unchanging screen of blue, and the dying director's recollections and expansive prose. look them both up.. [flaky] From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!easynet-uk!yama.mcc.ac.uk!not-for-mail Thu Aug 14 13:45:37 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18982 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!easynet-uk!yama.mcc.ac.uk!not-for-mail From: Marcus Hill Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:33:34 +0100 Organization: If I told you I'd have to kill you. Lines: 14 Message-ID: <33F2D0EE.4F4B@ma.man.ac.uk> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <33dfda25.39810645@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <5rqe15$h6c$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> <870370435snz@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> <5rt0ms$11ck$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> <5ssudu$6r2$2@minotaur.labyrinth.net.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: vummath.ma.man.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4m) Chun Hock Lim wrote: > > sorry to piss in your teacup, but the idea of a sound only game has been > announced by Kenji Eno from Warp Japan over a year ago. ...and it was someone mentioning that project that got this thread started. ******* LRP FAQ at http://www.upl.cs.wisc.edu/~chaos/LARP.html ******* "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare." - Blair Houghton Marcus. From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!infeed1.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!205.185.79.4!zdc!super.zippo.com!lotsanews.com!yama.mcc.ac.uk!news.shef.ac.uk!stoat!ph1pak Thu Aug 14 13:45:46 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18983 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!infeed1.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!205.185.79.4!zdc!super.zippo.com!lotsanews.com!yama.mcc.ac.uk!news.shef.ac.uk!stoat!ph1pak From: ph1pak@stoat.shef.ac.uk (P Kinsler) Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Followup-To: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Date: 14 Aug 1997 12:21:33 GMT Organization: Sheffield University, UK Lines: 16 Message-ID: <5sut8d$d9r$2@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <33dfda25.39810645@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <5rqe15$h6c$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> <870370435snz@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> <5rt0ms$11ck$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> <5ssudu$6r2$2@minotaur.labyrinth.net.au> <33F2D0EE.4F4B@ma.man.ac.uk> Reply-To: P.Kinsler@Sheffield.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: stoat.shef.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Marcus Hill (marcus@ma.man.ac.uk) wrote: : Chun Hock Lim wrote: : > : > sorry to piss in your teacup, but the idea of a sound only game has been : > announced by Kenji Eno from Warp Japan over a year ago. : ...and it was someone mentioning that project that got this thread : started. I did not mention the game when I started this thread. Someone else followed up mentioning it though. -- #Paul. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You people, you do not see the grandeur in the wind and stone and stars, in the blood and fire and iron - but paint only the flowers." From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!europa.clark.net!169.207.30.81!newsfeeds.sol.net!newsspool.sol.net!munnari.OZ.AU!metro!metro!unsw.edu.au!not-for-mail Fri Aug 15 14:19:01 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:19002 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!europa.clark.net!169.207.30.81!newsfeeds.sol.net!newsspool.sol.net!munnari.OZ.AU!metro!metro!unsw.edu.au!not-for-mail From: Andrew Edward White Newsgroups: rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games Date: 15 Aug 1997 06:11:11 GMT Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of New South Wales Lines: 15 Message-ID: <5t0rtv$u4$1@mirv.unsw.edu.au> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: goanna.circus.cse.unsw.edu.au In terms of implementation, there have been a couple of projects at the University of New South Wales (UNSW; Sydney, Australia) involving audio only adventure games. I don't know of any publication details, but can put you in touch with the authors if people are interested. One of the projects was "An aural interface to a virtual reality adventure game", and was, according my thesis supervisor, "quite playable". -- Andrew White andreww@cse.unsw.edu.au http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~andreww/ "A complex problem is merely a simple hierarchy of simple problems" From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!easynet-uk!yama.mcc.ac.uk!news.shef.ac.uk!dirac.shef.ac.uk!not-for-mail Mon Aug 4 11:00:48 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18617 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!easynet-uk!yama.mcc.ac.uk!news.shef.ac.uk!dirac.shef.ac.uk!not-for-mail From: kinsler@dirac.shef.ac.uk (Paul Kinsler) Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: 29 Jul 1997 16:51:52 GMT Organization: University of Sheffield, UK Lines: 35 Message-ID: <5rl738$7hb$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dirac.shef.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] NB: posted to uk.games.roleplay, rec.games.design Professor Bordas (indx@ns.ph.liv.ac.uk) wrote in uk.games.roleplay: : : [Somebody wrote] : : It brings to mind comments made (I think by DNA himself) about : : comparisions of the Hitchhikers radio and TV series. Being that the : : radio series worked so much better because they had to do less to get : : the listener (as opposed to the viewer) to suspend disbelief as a few : : simple sound effects (ie. roaring wind in a flying scene) added much : : more to the mental image of the scene than could ever be econimically : : added to the actual TV picture. : : : Good point. : Maybe concentrating on sound would be a more fruitful line to : follow. Some sound effects CD,s a decent stereo and a good remote : control and you could develop some 'sound scenes' to play for your : players at the appropriate moment. I This gives me an idea, which might not work, and noone would buy, but might be fun to play with for a while. How about an audio-only roleplaying game? Rather like a text based game with a speech synth, but you could add decent sound effects. After all, people do listen to radio (and not only HHGTTG) and not just TV/video. Would this make a better HHGTTG game? Or some other genres? Comments? #Paul. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You people, you do not see the grandeur in the wind and stone and stars, in the blood and fire and iron - but paint only the flowers." From leeds.ac.uk!newsfeed.ed.ac.uk!easynet-uk!yama.mcc.ac.uk!zdc!super.zippo.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!not-for-mail Mon Aug 4 11:00:48 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18625 Path: leeds.ac.uk!newsfeed.ed.ac.uk!easynet-uk!yama.mcc.ac.uk!zdc!super.zippo.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!not-for-mail From: SAInt Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:42:34 -0500 Organization: Universtiy of Illinois Lines: 38 Message-ID: <33DE399A.DBBE59F8@uiuc.edu> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <5rl738$7hb$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: denver-8.slip.uiuc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Paul Kinsler wrote: > How about an audio-only roleplaying game? Rather like a text based > game with a speech synth, but you could add decent sound effects. > After all, people do listen to radio (and not only HHGTTG) and > not just TV/video. Would this make a better HHGTTG game? Or some > other genres? There is a Japanese audio-only game called "Real Sound" released by Warp, the same company who made FMV adventure D and Enemy Zero. I beleve it's an adventure game, not RPG, but as I am aware, this is the first commercial game to use only audio. I hope to hear more about its success/failure and its gameplay. Au revoir. Chi Won "SAInt" Choi ----------------------------------------- SAInt's Recent Play List: [SS] Tactics Ogre, Tokimeki Memorial, Sakura Taisen [PS] Tobal 2, Final Fantasy Tactics, Princess Maker 3 [Arcade] SF3, House of Dead, VF3, Vampire Savior [Films] Face/Off [Manhwa] Red Blood [Manga] Buzzer Beater [Anime] Neon Genesis Evangelion, On Your Mark [Fav. Chararacter] Ibuki(SF3), Bulleta(Vampire Savior), Angel(On Your Mark) SAInt's Index Page - (C)1997 SAInt Studio http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~cw-choi/ Tokimeki Memorial FAQ 2.3 is now available! ----------------------------------------- From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!easynet-uk!nntp.uio.no!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newsm2.ibm.net!ibm.net!news1.ibm.net!166.72.73.215 Mon Aug 4 11:00:48 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18658 From: Masema@juno.com (Brent P. Newhall) Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:24:14 GMT Message-ID: <33dfda25.39810645@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <5rl738$7hb$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.72.73.215 Lines: 48 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!easynet-uk!nntp.uio.no!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newsm2.ibm.net!ibm.net!news1.ibm.net!166.72.73.215 On 29 Jul 1997 16:51:52 GMT, kinsler@dirac.shef.ac.uk (Paul Kinsler) wrote: >NB: posted to uk.games.roleplay, rec.games.design > >Professor Bordas (indx@ns.ph.liv.ac.uk) wrote in uk.games.roleplay: >: : [Somebody wrote] >: : It brings to mind comments made (I think by DNA himself) about >: : comparisions of the Hitchhikers radio and TV series. Being that the >: : radio series worked so much better because they had to do less to get >: : the listener (as opposed to the viewer) to suspend disbelief as a few >: : simple sound effects (ie. roaring wind in a flying scene) added much >: : more to the mental image of the scene than could ever be econimically >: : added to the actual TV picture. >: >: >: Good point. >: Maybe concentrating on sound would be a more fruitful line to >: follow. Some sound effects CD,s a decent stereo and a good remote >: control and you could develop some 'sound scenes' to play for your >: players at the appropriate moment. I > >This gives me an idea, which might not work, and noone would >buy, but might be fun to play with for a while. > > >How about an audio-only roleplaying game? Rather like a text based >game with a speech synth, but you could add decent sound effects. >After all, people do listen to radio (and not only HHGTTG) and >not just TV/video. Would this make a better HHGTTG game? Or some >other genres? > >Comments? ...while you sit there, staring at a black screen. TBH, I think that the production cost required for a game like this would be so high that there would be no point. Text adventures are so rare as it is, the cost of recording voices and doing this CD-ROM (since it would have to be a CD-ROM) would be too much for smaller game companies (e.g. one person), and larger game companies could afford to hire on artists. Text adventures live on because they're cheap to make. Not so audio adventures. Brent P. Newhall "Education never ceases." From leeds.ac.uk!news Mon Aug 4 11:00:48 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18667 Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Path: leeds.ac.uk!news From: eenpk@eensgi2.shef.ac.uk (Paul Kinsler) Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Message-ID: <1997Jul31.084314.29314@leeds.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: eensgi2.leeds.ac.uk Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:43:13 +0100 (BST) References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <5rl738$7hb$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <33dfda25.39810645@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] Lines: 26 Followup-To: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Brent P. Newhall (Masema@juno.com) wrote: : ...while you sit there, staring at a black screen. : : TBH, I think that the production cost required for a game like this : would be so high that there would be no point. Text adventures are so : rare as it is, the cost of recording voices and doing this CD-ROM : (since it would have to be a CD-ROM) would be too much for smaller : game companies (e.g. one person), and larger game companies could : afford to hire on artists. : : Text adventures live on because they're cheap to make. Not so audio : adventures. Yes, but, I was wondering how you might make a game like this work as a _game_ not as a production piece. "staring at a blank screen" indeed -- do I stare at the radio when I listen to a radio play? Like hell I do, I'm imagining the action. #Paul. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Inst Microwaves & Photonics, University of Leeds, UK. (ph) +44 113 2332089 ------------------------------+soluble fish+------------------------------ "You people, you do not see the grandeur in the wind and stone and stars, in the blood and fire and iron - but paint only the flowers." From leeds.ac.uk!server6.netnews.ja.net!str-ccsun!easynet-uk!yama.mcc.ac.uk!warwick!keele!not-for-mail Mon Aug 4 11:00:48 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18688 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server6.netnews.ja.net!str-ccsun!easynet-uk!yama.mcc.ac.uk!warwick!keele!not-for-mail From: u5a77@teach.cs.keele.ac.uk (Spike) Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: 31 Jul 1997 14:39:30 GMT Lines: 23 Distribution: uk Message-ID: <5rq832$o4c$6@gerry.cc.keele.ac.uk> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: sierra.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950515BETA PL0] Paul Kinsler (eenpk@eensgi2.shef.ac.uk) wrote: : Yes, but, I was wondering how you might make a game like this : work as a _game_ not as a production piece. : : "staring at a blank screen" indeed -- do I stare at the radio : when I listen to a radio play? Like hell I do, I'm imagining : the action. I think you'd have to have perfect voice recognition first off. After that, you could lie on your bed, microphone in hand, and play from there..... -- ______________________________________________________________________________ |u5a77@teach.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" | |Andrew Halliwell | | |Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control | |Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ |GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ | |5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!gatech!news.cis.uab.edu!news.lsu.edu!kuo Mon Aug 4 11:00:48 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18683 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!gatech!news.cis.uab.edu!news.lsu.edu!kuo From: kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu (Isaac Kuo) Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: 31 Jul 1997 16:20:53 GMT Organization: Department of Computer Science, LSU, Baton Rouge Lines: 46 Message-ID: <5rqe15$h6c$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <5rl738$7hb$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <33dfda25.39810645@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: bit.csc.lsu.edu First off, I love the Hitchhiker radio series better than all the other versions, but I think the primary reason it worked better than the TV version was because the TV version sucked. A high budget and fancy special effects weren't the problem and wouldn't have helped (just compare Red Dwarf seasons 2-3 with 6-7). In article <33dfda25.39810645@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, Brent P. Newhall wrote: >On 29 Jul 1997 16:51:52 GMT, kinsler@dirac.shef.ac.uk (Paul Kinsler) >wrote: >>This gives me an idea, which might not work, and noone would >>buy, but might be fun to play with for a while. >>How about an audio-only roleplaying game? Rather like a text based >>game with a speech synth, but you could add decent sound effects. I find this concept fascinating. It's especially intruiging if you imagine a game where the player's character is blind--perhaps blinded at the start of the story. >...while you sit there, staring at a black screen. What do you look at when listenning to the radio? >TBH, I think that the production cost required for a game like this >would be so high that there would be no point. Text adventures are so >rare as it is, the cost of recording voices and doing this CD-ROM >(since it would have to be a CD-ROM) would be too much for smaller >game companies (e.g. one person), and larger game companies could >afford to hire on artists. I doubt the idea is commercially viable as well, but a small experimental public domain game could be thrown together without much expense. I imagine a good place to start is with small detective "puzzles". You're a blind detective, and you've arrived at the scene of a crime. All the suspects are there, and there are only a few rooms which need to be simulated in the game. -- _____ Isaac Kuo kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu http://www.csc.lsu.edu/~kuo __|_)o(_|__ /___________\ "Mari-san... Yokatta... \=\)-----(/=/ ...Yokatta go-buji de..." - Karigari Hiroshi From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!server1.netnews.ja.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!krypton.inbe.net!INbe.net!news.belnet.be!jussieu.fr!pasteur.fr!oleane!eerie.fr!news.apfel.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!zhochaka.demon.co.uk!dbell Mon Aug 4 11:00:48 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18692 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!server1.netnews.ja.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!krypton.inbe.net!INbe.net!news.belnet.be!jussieu.fr!pasteur.fr!oleane!eerie.fr!news.apfel.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!zhochaka.demon.co.uk!dbell From: dbell@zhochaka.demon.co.uk ("David G. Bell") Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 97 17:33:55 GMT Organization: C. Bell & Sons Message-ID: <870370435snz@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <5rl738$7hb$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <33dfda25.39810645@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <5rqe15$h6c$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> Reply-To: dbell@zhochaka.demon.co.uk X-Mail2News-User: dbell@zhochaka.demon.co.uk X-Mail2News-Path: zhochaka.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.30 Lines: 29 In article <5rqe15$h6c$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu "Isaac Kuo" writes: > >TBH, I think that the production cost required for a game like this > >would be so high that there would be no point. Text adventures are so > >rare as it is, the cost of recording voices and doing this CD-ROM > >(since it would have to be a CD-ROM) would be too much for smaller > >game companies (e.g. one person), and larger game companies could > >afford to hire on artists. > > I doubt the idea is commercially viable as well, but a small > experimental public domain game could be thrown together without > much expense. > > I imagine a good place to start is with small detective "puzzles". > You're a blind detective, and you've arrived at the scene of a > crime. All the suspects are there, and there are only a few rooms > which need to be simulated in the game. I recall some discussion of short-run CD costs, and sound recording, has appeared occasionally in the rec.music.filk newsgroup. The production cost for an audio CD is likely to be less -- the reproduction costs are likely to be pretty much identical. -- David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, Furry, and Punslinger.. From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!server1.netnews.ja.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!krypton.inbe.net!INbe.net!news.belnet.be!jussieu.fr!zdc-e!super.zippo.com!lotsanews.com!howland.erols.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed5.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!umass.edu!kernighan.cs.umass.edu!el4!ppiselli Mon Aug 4 11:00:48 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18691 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!server1.netnews.ja.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!krypton.inbe.net!INbe.net!news.belnet.be!jussieu.fr!zdc-e!super.zippo.com!lotsanews.com!howland.erols.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed5.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!umass.edu!kernighan.cs.umass.edu!el4!ppiselli From: ppiselli@el4.cs.umass.edu (PAOLO PISELLI M Z) Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Followup-To: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Date: 31 Jul 1997 17:40:09 GMT Organization: CMPSCI Department, UMass Amherst Lines: 7 Message-ID: <5rqilp$pa9@kernighan.cs.umass.edu> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <5rl738$7hb$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <33DE399A.DBBE59F8@uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: el4.cs.umass.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] A few years back, when I was a more avid comic-reader, I seem to remember an audio RPG called FIST that was being heavily advertised. It was like a 900 number that you call, and press buttons to do different things, and audio tracks with room descriptions and sound effects played. -Paolo From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!server1.netnews.ja.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!krypton.inbe.net!INbe.net!news.belnet.be!jussieu.fr!pasteur.fr!oleane!eerie.fr!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.clark.net!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!prodigy.com!nntp.earthlink.net!hipbone Mon Aug 4 11:00:49 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18693 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!server1.netnews.ja.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!krypton.inbe.net!INbe.net!news.belnet.be!jussieu.fr!pasteur.fr!oleane!eerie.fr!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.clark.net!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!prodigy.com!nntp.earthlink.net!hipbone From: hipbone@earthlink.net (Charles Cameron) Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:07:18 -0700 Organization: HipBone Games Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <5rl738$7hb$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <33dfda25.39810645@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <5rqe15$h6c$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pool009-max5.pasadena-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 In article <5rqe15$h6c$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu>, kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu (Isaac Kuo) wrote: < stuff snipped > > >TBH, I think that the production cost required for a game like this > >would be so high that there would be no point. Text adventures are so > >rare as it is, the cost of recording voices and doing this CD-ROM > >(since it would have to be a CD-ROM) would be too much for smaller > >game companies (e.g. one person), and larger game companies could > >afford to hire on artists. > > I doubt the idea is commercially viable as well, but a small > experimental public domain game could be thrown together without > much expense. > > I imagine a good place to start is with small detective "puzzles". > You're a blind detective, and you've arrived at the scene of a > crime. All the suspects are there, and there are only a few rooms > which need to be simulated in the game. Bravo, Isaac. -- Charles Charles Cameron * hipbone games: http://idt.net/~davehuge/ mirror site: http://home.earthlink.net/~hipbone/ From leeds.ac.uk!server6.netnews.ja.net!server1.netnews.ja.net!warwick!keele!not-for-mail Mon Aug 4 11:00:49 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18702 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server6.netnews.ja.net!server1.netnews.ja.net!warwick!keele!not-for-mail From: u5a77@teach.cs.keele.ac.uk (Spike) Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: 31 Jul 1997 20:41:14 GMT Lines: 20 Distribution: uk Message-ID: <5rqt9a$1o7$10@gerry.cc.keele.ac.uk> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <5rl738$7hb$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <33DE399A.DBBE59F8@uiuc.edu> <5rqilp$pa9@kernighan.cs.umass.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: sierra.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950515BETA PL0] PAOLO PISELLI M Z (ppiselli@el4.cs.umass.edu) wrote: : A few years back, when I was a more avid comic-reader, I seem to remember : an audio RPG called FIST that was being heavily advertised. It was like : a 900 number that you call, and press buttons to do different things, : and audio tracks with room descriptions and sound effects played. There were quite a few of those.... Wayyyy to expensive to take seriously though. -- | |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crack| |u5a77@teach.cs.keele.ac.uk|in the ground beneath a giant boulder, which you| | |can't move, with no hope of rescue. | |Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been | |Principal Subjects in:- |good to you so far... | |Comp Sci & Electronics | -The BOOK, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy.| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- |GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ | |5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( | From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!server4.netnews.ja.net!server2.netnews.ja.net!news-peer!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!equus.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Mon Aug 4 11:00:49 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18701 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!server4.netnews.ja.net!server2.netnews.ja.net!news-peer!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!equus.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: edhogg@equus.demon.co.uk (ed) Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:13:32 GMT Organization: Team Rodent Message-ID: <33e30161.3176807@news.demon.co.uk> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <5rl738$7hb$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <33dfda25.39810645@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <5rqe15$h6c$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> Reply-To: edhogg@equus.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: equus.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: equus.demon.co.uk [158.152.255.217] X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 The noble kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu (Isaac Kuo) spake on the day of 31 Jul 1997 16:20:53 GMT: > >First off, I love the Hitchhiker radio series better than all the >other versions, but I think the primary reason it worked better >than the TV version was because the TV version sucked. A high >budget and fancy special effects weren't the problem and wouldn't >have helped (just compare Red Dwarf seasons 2-3 with 6-7). The reason the TV version was not as good as the Radio version is Douglas Adams. Every time he had a chance to rework the story it got less funny. The rawer Radio stuff, still being written the day before taping was a lot better. Wish R4 would repeat Hordes of the Things though ed -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- edhogg@equus.demon.meatblock.co.uk | EAT AT | __/ / / / / http://www.equus.demon.co.uk | JANGIR'S | @____/ o / / / / For devilbunnies, Diplomacy, C&S, | 5 Mins From | \ __/ / / / / / Conspiring Rodents and other stuff | This .Sig | \ / / / / / ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!server1.netnews.ja.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!krypton.inbe.net!INbe.net!news.belnet.be!jussieu.fr!pasteur.fr!oleane!eerie.fr!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.clark.net!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!newbabylon.rs.itd.umich.edu!dhelder Mon Aug 4 11:00:49 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18705 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!server1.netnews.ja.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!krypton.inbe.net!INbe.net!news.belnet.be!jussieu.fr!pasteur.fr!oleane!eerie.fr!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.clark.net!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!newbabylon.rs.itd.umich.edu!dhelder From: dhelder@pacman.rs.itd.umich.edu (David Andrew Helder) Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: 31 Jul 1997 23:38:18 GMT Organization: University of Michigan Lines: 17 Message-ID: <5rr7la$a08$1@newbabylon.rs.itd.umich.edu> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <33dfda25.39810645@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <5rqe15$h6c$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> <870370435snz@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: pacman.rs.itd.umich.edu The blind-man CRPG idea is fascinating. However, how would you interface with the game? By voice only? That might be too limiting. What if you had a standard CRPG interface, but with a black screen. It would be difficult to find objects. I guess you'd just click into the darkness to try to pick something up. You could also have a seeing-eye dog that would bark at nearby objects and help lead you. Or, you could have a cane that would make clicking noises when you hit something. I like the idea in general of totally replacing the usual sort of avatar with something new. I was impressed by Dungeon Keeper's possession modes for the monsters where you see the world as they do (okay, so it's just a lens, but it's still pretty clever). David -- David Helder - University of Michigan dhelder@umich.edu http://www-personal.umich.edu/~dhelder From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!zdc!super.zippo.com!lotsanews.com!yama.mcc.ac.uk!usenet Mon Aug 4 11:00:49 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18726 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!zdc!super.zippo.com!lotsanews.com!yama.mcc.ac.uk!usenet From: Marcus Hill Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 13:23:15 +0100 Organization: If I told you I'd have to kill you. Lines: 17 Message-ID: <33E1D533.7F5C@ma.man.ac.uk> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <5rl738$7hb$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <33dfda25.39810645@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <5rqe15$h6c$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: vummath.ma.man.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4m) Isaac Kuo wrote: > A high > budget and fancy special effects weren't the problem and wouldn't > have helped (just compare Red Dwarf seasons 2-3 with 6-7). > Actually, in an interview with SFX a few months ago, the RD effects people said that their budget for season 7 was less than that for season 3. Still didn't make the season any good, though. ******* LRP FAQ at http://www.upl.cs.wisc.edu/~chaos/LARP.html ******* "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare." - Blair Houghton Marcus. From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!gatech!news.cis.uab.edu!news.lsu.edu!kuo Mon Aug 4 11:00:49 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18733 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!gatech!news.cis.uab.edu!news.lsu.edu!kuo From: kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu (Isaac Kuo) Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: 1 Aug 1997 15:51:56 GMT Organization: Department of Computer Science, LSU, Baton Rouge Lines: 40 Message-ID: <5rt0ms$11ck$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <33dfda25.39810645@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <5rqe15$h6c$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> <870370435snz@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: bit.csc.lsu.edu In article <870370435snz@zhochaka.demon.co.uk>, David G. Bell wrote: >In article <5rqe15$h6c$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> > kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu "Isaac Kuo" writes: >> >TBH, I think that the production cost required for a game like this >> >would be so high that there would be no point. [...] >> I doubt the idea is commercially viable as well, but a small >> experimental public domain game could be thrown together without >> much expense. >> I imagine a good place to start is with small detective "puzzles". >> You're a blind detective, and you've arrived at the scene of a >> crime. All the suspects are there, and there are only a few rooms >> which need to be simulated in the game. >I recall some discussion of short-run CD costs, and sound recording, has >appeared occasionally in the rec.music.filk newsgroup. The production >cost for an audio CD is likely to be less -- the reproduction costs are >likely to be pretty much identical. I was actually thinking about a small experimental game small enough to be made publicly available on the Internet. That's why I mentionned a possibility with such a limited scope. However, upon reflection, and audio only game _does_ have commercial possibilities. Why? Because of a sizable untapped market for computer games: Blind^H^H^H^H^HSight impaired computer users. There's enough blind computer users so that there's even web browser software for them, but right now there aren't any computer games designed for them. A good audio-only game has the potential to be a "must buy" for that market. -- _____ Isaac Kuo kuo@bit.csc.lsu.edu http://www.csc.lsu.edu/~kuo __|_)o(_|__ /___________\ "Mari-san... Yokatta... \=\)-----(/=/ ...Yokatta go-buji de..." - Karigari Hiroshi From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au!planet.ari.dpi.qld.gov.au!mhoisdpc0137 Mon Aug 4 11:00:49 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18712 Newsgroups: uk.games.roleplay,rec.games.design Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au!planet.ari.dpi.qld.gov.au!mhoisdpc0137 From: alex@place.org (Matthew Trevor) Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) X-Nntp-Posting-Host: 203.25.0.126 Message-ID: Sender: news@planet.ari.dpi.qld.gov.au Organization: Qld Department of Primary Industries X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <5rl738$7hb$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <33DE399A.DBBE59F8@uiuc.edu> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 21:50:47 GMT Lines: 20 SAInt wrote: >There is a Japanese audio-only game called "Real Sound" >released by Warp, the same company who made FMV adventure >D and Enemy Zero. > >I beleve it's an adventure game, not RPG, but as I am aware, >this is the first commercial game to use only audio. There was a game for the Spectrum sometime in the mid 80s that did something similar, I believe. I unfortunately cannot remember the name of it, although I have the feeling it was something like _An Incident at Dawn_... -- Matthew Trevor MQU/CH S* W(-) N+ PXX D A a+ C+++ G+ QH++>+++++ 666(+) Y>+++ email: alex@place.org web: http://www.place.org/~alex pgp: http://www.place.org/~alex/pgp_public.key From leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!news-peer!btnet!newsfeed.eu.concert.net!infeed1.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!jobone!lynx.unm.edu!newshub.tc.umn.edu!alpha.mrs.umn.edu!cdm.mrs.umn.edu!leejc Mon Aug 4 11:00:49 1997 Xref: leeds.ac.uk rec.games.design:18748 Path: leeds.ac.uk!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!news-peer!btnet!newsfeed.eu.concert.net!infeed1.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!jobone!lynx.unm.edu!newshub.tc.umn.edu!alpha.mrs.umn.edu!cdm.mrs.umn.edu!leejc From: Joe Lee Newsgroups: rec.games.design Subject: Re: Audio Games [was Re: The Future of Roleplaying ? (Long) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 17:07:47 -0500 Organization: University of Minnesota - Morris Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <33C52D4E.6828@enterprise.net> <33dfda25.39810645@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <5rqe15$h6c$1@its1.ocs.lsu.edu> <870370435snz@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> <5rr7la$a08$1@newbabylon.rs.itd.umich.edu> Reply-To: Joe Lee NNTP-Posting-Host: cdm.mrs.umn.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <5rr7la$a08$1@newbabylon.rs.itd.umich.edu> On 31 Jul 1997, David Andrew Helder wrote: > The blind-man CRPG idea is fascinating. However, how would you > interface with the game? By voice only? That might be too limiting. > What if you had a standard CRPG interface, but with a black screen. It > would be difficult to find objects. I guess you'd just click into the > darkness to try to pick something up. You could also have a seeing-eye > dog that would bark at nearby objects and help lead you. Or, you could > have a cane that would make clicking noises when you hit something. I think it might be cool if all you had was some variety of gamepad, which allowed you to navigate through menus via some form of audio cues, although one would probably want to avoid "Press 1 to pick up the bag, press 2 to enter the cave..." At least then you might not have to sit next to a blank monitor. Or, how about this: The primary interface to the game is via a hand-held "pointer" device that the user can carry around the room, allowing the computer to locate the user in space. Using this information, the computer can project the appropriate stereo sounds out of speakers around the room. The user could then "feel around" for objects or people, using buttons on the pointer to activate the objects. Although it would require some proprietary hardware, it would certainly be easier to implement (but harder to design for) than true virtual reality. And it would get the players up and moving for a change. :) Just brainstorming here... --=o0o=-- "If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason." -- Jack Handy, _Deep Thoughts_ Joe Lee -- leejc@cda.mrs.umn.edu